In this powerful episode, Dr. Barbara Sorrels, renowned early childhood expert and author of Reaching and Teaching Children Exposed to Trauma and Trauma-Sensitive Care for Infants, Toddlers, and Two-Year-Olds, joins us to explore what it truly means to care for young children impacted by trauma.
Dr. Sorrels shares heartfelt stories and actionable strategies from her decades of experience working with children, families, and educators. From recognizing the subtle signs of trauma in infants to creating responsive, healing environments, this conversation is filled with wisdom and practical tools every early childhood professional can use.
In This Episode, You’ll Learn:
- What trauma-sensitive care looks like in infant-toddler classrooms
- How even medical trauma at birth can impact brain development
- Subtle signs of trauma in preverbal children
- The power of rhythm, movement, and connection in calming dysregulated children
- How to build trust and rapport with families—even when trauma is present in the home
- Self-care strategies for educators facing compassion fatigue
- Why responsive care is more important than ever—and what systems and policies can better support it
Episode Transcript
The following is a lightly edited transcript of the interview.
Emily Garman: Welcome to Early Childhood Chapters, the podcast from Gryphon House Books. I'm your host, Emily Garman.
Today, I'm excited to introduce you to our guest, doctor Barbara Sorrels. She is the author of two books with Gryphon House, including Reaching and Teaching Children Exposed to Trauma and Trauma Sensitive Care for Infants, Toddlers, and Two Year Olds. Dr. Sorrels is also the executive director of Connected Kids in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and founded The Institute for Childhood Education, a professional development and consulting firm for those who live and work with children.
She has more than 20 years of child care, kindergarten, and elementary level teaching experience, and has taught college at the undergraduate and graduate level. Her main area of focus is the effects of trauma on early childhood development, and that's what we're going to be focusing on today.
So, Barbara, welcome. Can you tell us a little bit about your work and what you're focusing on now?
Dr. Barbara Sorrels: Sure. I do a lot of training with child care and any kind of organization that advocates for children who have come from hard places. I use that term coined by Dr. Karyn Purvis. I work a lot with foster and adoptive parents as well. And school districts. Currently, the organization has been, I started a therapeutic classroom, and that has been pulled into one of our local school districts, where we work with children who are struggling in pre-K and kindergarten.
It's kind of as our own little laboratory, of, trying out and learning from the children, different strategies and approaches to helping them overcome the trauma and their backgrounds and to heal.
Emily Garman: And just so that we're all on the same page when we're talking about this. And for people who are new to your work, how do you define trauma sensitive care in the context of very young children, infants and toddlers?
Dr. Barbara Sorrels: Well, I think that that trauma sensitive care means that, the caregivers are aware of the many forms of trauma. Often we think, in particular with infants and toddlers, that whatever happens to them doesn't really matter because they're not going to remember. But that really isn't true. So, for example, a child who experiences early medical trauma upon birth. Often folks don't realize that that loads in the system just as something.
The more common traumas that we might think of, the child is actually, in a sense, being harmed at the hands of a person. But that child doesn't understand that this, this pain, this, what I'm going through has perhaps even saved my life. But it impacts the regulatory system and the child much in the same way as some kind of traumatic, more commonly, like abuse or neglect.
I think it also means that not only am I aware of the different forms of trauma, but understanding how it impacts and in a sense, hijacks healthy growth and development and then in turn, knowing what kind of environment the nature of the relationships that children need in order to truly heal and overcome those early experiences.
Emily Garman: So much of that brain development you talk about in both of your books, how much trauma, whether like you said, it's a life saving intervention but the child's brain can't tell the difference. But what are some signs in children this young who can't talk to us about what happened? What are some signs that indicate that trauma has been present? Or that a child is dealing with some kind of trauma?
Dr. Barbara Sorrels: I mean, even in very young infants you, you might see lethargy. The child just kind of seems checked out. Isn't, responding to interactions, you know? And I think that's why it's so important to understand developmental milestones. Because, you know, around four months of age, children become very interactive. And, and you might have a child that almost seems oblivious to those reciprocal interactions that serve in return.
We might have children that have very fitful sleep, inconsolable crying. A child that doesn't mold to the caregiver's body. You pick that child up and they stiffen. And that inconsolable baby that nothing seems to be able to soothe. You might see a child that has digestive issues. Now, with that being said, you know, the infant's digestive system is still very much developing. So it's sometimes it's very hard to recognize the difference between, what might be normal digestive issues with something that lies outside the realm of what you consider normal.
And the lack of eye contact as they move into the toddler years, the active lack of eye contact. No initiation. You know, no initiation in terms of shared interaction, where the toddler plops the toy in your lap and in a sense, invites you to interact with them. And kind of, an indifference to that reciprocal interaction. Even through the toddler years and of course, temper tantrums. Now, with that being said, most toddlers temper tantrums along the way. But when temper tantrums become, in a sense, a way of life, and in a sense outside that realm of norm.
And I think that's the challenge with infant/ toddler care and recognition of what lies within the realm of typical and what lies with outside the realm. The more you know about development, the better able you are to make an educated assessment.
Emily Garman: And so much of that comes from experience. Being around hundreds of children and seeing things in the classroom. So I think the next natural question for someone listening who's an educator or a caregiver would be, well, okay, if I see these things, what do I do? How can I help these children? And that's what so much of your work is about, is teaching people how to help kids in these situations. So you mentioned that one of the things that you're working on is a responsive, therapeutic classroom. I'd love to hear some more about that, because maybe we can take some of those elements, things that you're doing into all classrooms and help help them be therapeutic for all children. So what what does that look like in a classroom for children in this age? Therapeutic classroom? And what can teachers do to bring those elements into classrooms they have?
Dr. Barbara Sorrels: Well, I think the number one thing is a warm, responsive relationship. It's all about relationships. You know, a child that, has come from trauma can only heal in the context of a relationship. So I, as a caregiver, one need to create an emotionally safe environment. And that is largely about who I am. The presence that I bring into that classroom, which means that I need to have a level of self-awareness where I am a person who is, as able to regulate myself because, you know, having an inconsolable, crying baby is stressful.
And I've got to be able to have regulatory strategies for myself to be able to truly be able to soothe that baby so that warm responsiveness to children's needs, that warm, responsive ness to, their distress and not being undone by the distress of children, that that's a huge part of it. And really just understanding good, developmentally appropriate practice. Because when we begin to unpack some of these strategies, these are strategies that are grounded in what we know about brain development, grounded in what we know about child development and what’s good for all children. And when you really begin to unpack it, it's about really knowing developmentally appropriate practice inside and out, knowing child development inside and out, and allowing that to inform, what we do in the classroom with children.
A huge part of it is creating that predictability, creating that routine, creating that emotional safety, being warmly responsive, and just creating that atmosphere, of safety and security.
Emily Garman: So some of the strategies you're talking about, obviously, this is a podcast. We can't cover all of the things that that teachers and educators can do, or all the things that you've learned over your lifetime of work.
But, I'm really interested in if you can walk us through a couple of scenarios or examples of situations where educators have done this successfully. I know in in your books you've mentioned several times you went back to this concept of using music or rhythms, drumming, tapping on things, whether that's with the child or the child doing that and how effective that has been to help kids regulate themselves? And that's very young children all the way up through teenagers. But can you give a couple of examples of where you or other educators have used these strategies so we can kind of get an idea of what that looks like?
Dr. Barbara Sorrels: Sure. I think one of the most amazing things that I’ve ever seen is, I walked into a four year old classroom in another state, and there was a little guy sitting in the middle of floor screaming, and, this happened to be a Title 1 school where there were many, many immigrant children from war torn countries, funneled in into this particular school and this program.
And this little guy was screaming at the top of his lungs, and you could tell that the teachers were kind of at a loss of what to do. And my assumption was it had probably been going on for quite a while. And so some of the children would try to console him and it would only make him scream louder. So, you know, after watching for a few minutes, I thought, well, I'm going to give it my best shot. I don't have a relationship with him, which is really where the power of my influence comes. It's that connectivity. I didn't have the benefit of that.
So I thought, I'm going to try some rhythm. So, when you're approaching a child who is very escalated, you need to be eye level or lower because an upward gaze will often trigger a fight or flight response. So I get down on my hands and knees and I start crawling toward this child, and I'm watching his face and I'm looking for the stink eye. I want to see how close I can get before he throws something at me. Because, you know, he doesn't know me from Adam. So I get about four feet away from him and he's still screaming. That kind of watching me out of the corner of his eye. And I saw the stink eye and I thought, I better not go any closer.
So I just sit down and I just start moving back and forth. And when you're trying to calm and escalated, child, I have found that you need to be somewhere around 60 beats a minute. Which is kind of counterintuitive because I find that sometimes we get stressed and so we start moving faster, but very intentionally making sure my body movements and my rhythm is somewhere around 60 beats minute. And within five seconds, this little guy's body starts swaying with me. The screaming slowly starts to de-escalate.
Within about 10 seconds, He stops screaming, gets up and goes over to the table to do a puzzle and his teacher comes over and goes, “was that magic?” I said, “no, it's biology.” And I see this all the time with infants as well. You know, when we have that inconsolable infant, we have a tendency to kind of do that mom thing where we start, you know, bouncing faster, moving faster, and just keeping it down to around 60 beats a minute.
I actually have a new grandbaby. And my son-in-law asked me, “Why does she always stop crying when you pick her up?” And he said, “Are you some kind of child whisperer?” And I said, “No, it's biology.” It's 60 beats a minute. And the vast majority of the time a baby will soothe. If I can be very conscious about staying somewhere within that rhythm and keeping myself calm, and I will be able to use rhythm to soothe that baby. So it's the swaying.
Emily Garman: But is it--are you, Are you patting the baby at that, at that rate?
Dr. Barbara Sorrels: I would say it's whatever that baby seems to enjoy. It could be bouncing, it could be walking, it could be swaying. Some babies like to be patted. Some babies like to be rubbed. I think, you know, it's trial and error, but it's an educated guess. Knowing that I need to do something rhythmic.
Emily Garman: Yeah. You mentioned, too, that even with that little boy, you didn't know him at all. So you didn't have that relationship of trust to start with. And that's, I think, something that good educators are always trying to do, to build rapport and trust with the students in their care and the families of those students. But when you don't have that, or maybe it's the beginning of the year and you're just meeting all the new students, what are some ways to-- I know those things have to evolve over time, so there's no quick way to do it. But what are some ways that teachers and educators and caregivers can start to build those relationships? Just something as simple as what you described, even.
Dr. Barbara Sorrels: I think one very simple thing is greeting children by name at the door as they come in. Again, it's so much about my persona, being eye level or lower when I'm greeting the children, greeting them with a song, because songs are rhythmic. I find that music creates that sense of felt safety. I'm going to do a lot of singing, a lot of--well, if you're dealing with toddlers and preschoolers in general, I'm going to do a lot of group games like Ring Around the Rosie and Here We Go Around the Mulberry Bush because we're moving in sync together. I'm going to follow the child's lead in play.
I'm not going to be sitting in a chair watching children play. I'm going to be down on the floor playing with children. Now, I get that as we get older, it's often much easier to get down than to get up! But I was in a child care center, they've come up with a brilliant solution for those of us whose knees are no longer working as well as they used to. They had doctor stools, you know, the round stools where you can spin that seat down pretty low, and they glide very easily. And so those who couldn't get down on the floor could sit on those stools and be pretty close, eye level with those littles.
So finding ways to playfully engage with children, I think a lot of it also is about how we appropriately use guidance strategies that are relationally driven, using do overs instead of time out. Using ignore the no and giving two yeses instead of some kind of punitive form of guidance and discipline. For many, I think it's learning a different approach. In terms of guidance, than is typically used in classrooms, we typically associate it with punishment. I've even seen toddlers-- trying to put a toddler in time out, or putting a toddler in a crib as a way of excluding them from play as a punishment. And so using more relationally driven guidance strategies as well.
Emily Garman: The other thing I want to ask about that is, teaching-- Especially caring for very young children and babies is exhausting work, even on great days. But when you've got situations where kids are having meltdowns, that little boy who is screaming at the top of his lungs, I mean, anybody, any parent can understand the frustration that comes with that. And you mentioned that earlier too. And when you're responsible for a number of children, It can get even more taxing and stressful.
So one of the things that we've been talking about a lot lately at Gryphon House is mental health and self-care for educators. So, we see a lot of turnover in early childhood development, a lot of times, and compassion fatigue, people just getting completely burned out. So what are, do you have any recommendations or ways that educators and caregivers can restore themselves? Can keep the energy up, can make sure that they're taking care of themselves so that they can care for the children in their care.
Dr. Barbara Sorrels: Right. That's it. That's a very good question, a huge issue. I've actually been part of the Happy Teacher project at University of Oklahoma that's looking at this, and I think that one I have to have as a caregiver, I have to have relationships that nourish me. Surround myself with even just a few people because I know time is limited. If I work all day and I'm pouring myself out to children, I go home to a family. But taking time at least once a week to just spend an hour with coffee, with a trusted friend, being able to engage in a hobby. Maybe I like to do quilting. Just taking an hour out during the week just to do something that brings me pleasure.
I also learned along the way to take what I call “small moments of vacation.” Which for me means, it might be ten minutes sitting on my back porch in the porch swing and just enjoying the flowers and the trees that are in my neighborhood, and having a moment to savor a little bit of chocolate, you know, taking a walk.
I like to think in terms of small moments, because not all of us have the finances and time to take big, extended vacations, but learning to appreciate those small moments. And I know that it's so much easier said than done. But finding those little things that can nourish our soul.
Emily Garman: Switching gears a little bit to talk about families. All children come from a family unit, which adds to the dynamic. And sometimes that family is the source of the trauma, sometimes not. So when educators have to interact with the families because they're all part of a system, When trauma is present in the home, whether that's refugees, people coming from war torn countries like you mentioned or, any number of other factors that could be affecting that child's life at home. What are some ways that educators can partner with families and engage families to be part of the growth of their child, even when maybe they don't trust the educators or there are communication barriers. What can educators do to engage families?
Dr. Barbara Sorrels: Well, I think you're right. One thing to realize is that when we see a traumatized child, unless it's a foster child or an adopted child, it's very likely that that parent has experienced the same trauma that the child has and is going to demonstrate many of the same characteristics.
And, you know, one of the interesting things that I have noticed over the last, really, five decades of being in education is in times past, parents always brought their children to the door of the classroom and picked them up. As decades have gone by, more and more children come on a bus. They might even go to child care before they actually come into, say, a public school preschool. Sometimes in the name of safety. We don't want parents in the building.
I know some folks say we want parents to drop them off at the door, and we've lost that small touch point of connection with the teacher. I just think those moments are so valuable. And one of the things that we ask in our therapeutic classroom is that at least once a day, either pick up or drop off, that that parent come to the door to have that brief moment of contact with the teacher. It makes all the difference in the world.
And then I might also say just small moments of kindness, small acts of kindness. You have that new baby, just giving them a card, a congratulatory card. You know, just speaking words of encouragement. You see that mom that's struggling? She might be coming in and she might be yelling at the child as she comes in the door. Instead of like, oh, my goodness, look at her. Recognizing that she's having a bad moment herself and just stepping in and just say, I'm so sorry that you're having, you know, a bad moment today and what can I do to help?
Or just instinctively knowing as you get to know people, how you can step in to help, looking at parents with compassion, the same compassion that we want to show the children and recognizing that it's a journey to building trust, using your cell phone to snap pictures of the children throughout the day, especially a child who may had have come in dysregulated. That baby who is experiencing separation anxiety, snapping a few pictures, and just sending it off to mom and saying she's happy she's engaged and playing with the blocks or whatever. The small things can build bridges to parents.
But I also want to have the caveat take the cell phones out only for pictures, but not so much for personal scrolling or phone calls or text messaging! Using it for productive purposes.
Emily Garman: Yeah, I think that when a child comes to school, however old they are, if they have the feeling, whether it's subconscious or something the parent or the adult has said if those adults feel good about sending that child into your classroom and they feel good about school, that child is going to pick up on that too, and they're going to feel better about it than if their parent were feeling doubts or uneasy.
Dr. Barbara Sorrels: Yeah. Absolutely. I always say when you’re dropping off, and especially with infants and toddlers, when you drop them off, don't rush the parent off or kind of rush them out the door, spend a few moments of friendly chit chat with that parent, because that sends a signal to that child that this is a safe person because they social reference the parent. The parent is relaxed and chatting and smiling. That sends a signal to the child that this is a safe person in a safe place.
Emily Garman: You mentioned that you've had a 50 year career in this field, and that level of experience and insight that you have gained over that time is just invaluable. So I'm so glad you're teaching and you're imparting your, your body of work and knowledge to future generations of teachers. I'm also curious to see, given that experience over that length of time, how you have seen trauma informed care change in the last 10 or 20 years? I mean, I think probably 20 years ago, that wasn't even a phrase that anybody probably used, but but now it's it's something that even laypeople know about. So what are some big and maybe positive changes you've seen over time?
Dr. Barbara Sorrels: Well, I think that it has become part of the public conversation thanks to the ACE study, the Adverse Childhood Experiences study. I mean, I would say that even maybe 6 or 7 years ago, if I was in a group of educators, childcare providers, if I said, how many of you are familiar with the ACE study, there would just be a handful of people in a large group of folks. Now, I would say the vast majority are familiar with that study. So I believe that people are more talking about it, more aware, more of the trauma. I think that's the main thing.
And I think that there is a desire to know how to deal with it. That's why one of the reasons I don't really like “Trauma Informed.” I want to move to “responsive” because I still think we have a long way to go in helping people understand how to respond. Okay, we can talk about it and I can know about it, but now what do I do with it? I'm not sure we're there yet on a large scale. We're there in pockets. But I think we have a long way to go in terms of knowing what that means on a day to day basis. I think that we're still fleshing that out and helping people to understand that.
Emily Garman: The work that you do, with young children, with families, with educators, it touches on public policy, systems of care, structural supports. So we know that being responsive to children's needs is not just a classroom issue. It's a societal issue that requires leadership at all levels. So without really getting into politics, but in terms of just broader societal responsibility, the responsibility that we as adults have to the next generation of children, even whether we're educators or not, do you have any opinions on the roles that say, state and federal governments play in supporting this kind of care, this kind of responsive care in early childhood settings, and in educating teachers about how to do this work?
Do you see any policy changes or systemic supports that you think would make a meaningful difference for young children and the people who care for them? It's a really, really huge question, but some policy changes that would would help deal with this, because it seems like we're just see more and more children who are affected by some sort of trauma.
Dr. Barbara Sorrels: Yes, I believe that we need a national child care policy because I believe that every child deserves access to quality care. I've always said that you don't need bombs and war to destroy a nation. You destroy it within by destroying children and attacking families. And more and more families are struggling. You know, the economy, we still have folks who are struggling and can't afford quality childcare.
And so and then you look at childcare providers themselves, many of them actually live at a level where they qualify for poverty assistance. And so we have the least paid and under trained people caring for children at the most important time of life. I mean, I say the early years, it's the Super Bowl. and we need our finest who are caring for our youngest children because they're laying the foundation of that development.
And there are many, many good hearted people in childcare who they themselves have not had the opportunity for more education, to earn a higher wage. I believe that with a national child care policy, whether it's a sliding scale, or however we need to work it, reverse Social Security, I've heard folks toy around with that; ways of funding quality care where our child care providers get paid a fair wage, where they can, they don't live with the stress themselves of living paycheck to paycheck, trying to make ends meet. Do I have a car that's substantial or reliable to even get me to work? All of those issues that people on the front lines are dealing with.
A national child care policy would would be a huge benefit to children and families.
Emily Garman: Is there anything that you'd like to add or that you'd like to share that I haven't asked or that we have missed?
Dr. Barbara Sorrels: Well, there's so much, there's so much to share. And I would just say that it's all about relationships. It's all about meeting children's needs. It's all about being warmly responsive to their needs and helping them to accomplish those developmental milestones. And always remembering that you're teaching a child and not a curriculum. And the child takes precedence over the curriculum, and just using good developmentally appropriate practices.
Emily Garman: Well, thank you so much for your expertise. And your wisdom is really inspiring and so, so valuable to everyone listening. And we appreciate your time and speaking with us today. Can you tell me more about where people can find you? So, you have a website, you have a podcast. There's some different ways that folks can reach out to you.
Dr. Barbara Sorrels: Right. I do have a podcast that I did with my daughter called Nurturing the Heart of a Child. I have a website, the Institute for Childhood Education. So those are some ways, I'm always open to emails. On my website, it just says, contact me and it'll come right to me and I'll be happy to respond.
Emily Garman: And you do consulting and speaking and travel too. So you're available to help in specific situations. Great. Dr. Barbara Sorrels, thank you so much for joining us on Early Childhood Chapters.
Dr. Barbara Sorrels: Well, thank you for the opportunity.
