In this episode of Early Childhood Chapters, we visit Riverfield Country Day School in Tulsa, Oklahoma, to sit down with the authors of Curated Moments: Reggio-Inspired Classrooms for Infants, Toddlers & Twos—a groundbreaking new book from Gryphon House Books. Join us as Emily Garman talks with Head of School Jerry Bates, Head of Preschool and Innovation Jennifer Kesselring, Assistant Division Head Ashley Stewart, and Assistant Division Head Whitney Dickinson. Together, they share insights into their unique approach to early childhood education, inspired by the Reggio Emilia philosophy.
Discover how Riverfield has seamlessly blended the Reggio Emilia approach into their school culture, creating an environment that nurtures curiosity, collaboration, and lifelong learning for both teachers and students. The authors discuss the transformative impact of viewing classrooms as "living laboratories" and how a mindset of "we could if" empowers educators to innovate within any resource constraints. Learn about their journey to Italy, the professional development experiences that shaped their perspective, and how they continue to evolve their practices to meet the needs of today’s children.
Whether you’re an early childhood educator, administrator, or a parent, this episode provides valuable takeaways on how to bring Reggio-inspired learning to life—even in simple, accessible ways. Listen to gain practical tips on setting up intentional spaces, fostering children’s agency, and building a collaborative school community that celebrates both children and educators.
Key Takeaways:
- Insight into the Reggio Emilia philosophy and its influence on Riverfield Country Day School.
- How to create a Reggio-inspired classroom with accessible, reclaimed materials and community involvement.
- The importance of “provocations” in stimulating curiosity and guiding children’s learning.
- How adopting a “we could if” mindset enables innovation and creativity, even with limited budgets.
- Practical advice for educators and parents looking to adopt Reggio-inspired practices.
Why Listen?
Curated Moments isn’t just a book—it’s a resource for those seeking to elevate early childhood education with an innovative, child-centered approach. This episode will inspire you to rethink your approach to teaching and learning with young children, drawing from the Reggio philosophy’s focus on joy, curiosity, and respect for each child’s unique perspective.
Buy the Book:
Want to dive deeper? Curated Moments: Reggio-Inspired Classrooms for Infants, Toddlers & Twos is available now from Gryphon House Books. Click here to purchase and bring Reggio-inspired practices to your classroom or home.
Episode Transcript
Emily Garman: For this interview, we were on site at Riverfield Country Day School in Tulsa Oklahoma. We had a chance to tour the school and visit with the authors of Curated Moments about their book and their school and what they hope teachers and parents will take away from it.
Jerry Bates: My name is Jerry Bates, I’m the head of school, I've been here for, well, since 2001. So 23 years, started as a parent, and worked my way up to head of school.
Jennifer Kesselring: I'm Jen Kesselring, and I have been at revealed for 28 years now. I am the head of the preschool and head of Innovation and Learning for the whole school.
Ashley Stewart: And I'm Ashley Stewart and I am an assistant division head of the preschool, and I have been at Riverfield also for 23 years, starting just as part time and then moving into a teacher role before stepping out, into administration.
Whitney Dickinson: And I’m Ashley Dickinson. This is my, I think, 16th year at Riverfield. I started, as a classroom teacher, actually, in the school class, and then became a coordinator. And now I'm an assistant division head as well.
Emily Garman: Explain to me the title, Head of Innovation, Jen. I know, I'm familiar with the others, but I'm not sure what this is.
Jennifer Kesselring: So it's a good question. So I think, the best way to explain that is Riverfield. We've always been a school that was, progressive, that was on the edge of the very best of educational practice.
And my role is to ensure that we continue to be on that edge, that we are aware of what's happening in the world, in the nation with research, with best practice and the ways in which theory and practice can reciprocally reinforce each other, in ways that keep education relevant to what the students need now, because it's very different. Every time the world evolves, our educational practice also needs to evolve alongside it. And so what I do is keep my eyes and ears open for what is happening and ensure that students, at Riverfield are getting what they need to be able to be successful in life.
Emily Garman: So we’re here at Riverfield Country day school in Tulsa. This is the place where all the photographs in iyour book were taken. Tell me about Riverfield. Even just walking in here, I can tell that it’s different from other schools.
Jerry Bates: So I think that, you know, as, as Riverfield started, it was founded as, as always being innovative. And I think that one of the main goals of the school starting out, we're in our 40th year right now, was that hands on minds on education is something that's that's crucial to the way children learn.
And, and that's not just children. It's actually people. And I think that's something that that makes us distinctive. And so, when we became more and more inspired by the Reggio approach, it was that kind of involvement. How do we become how do we learn about the Reggio approach? And then how do we apply that to, to what we do with young children?
And then I think as we've continued to evolve, it hasn't just been young children. It's it's all of us. So, Jen and myself and Katie Musick, the head of our lower school, and Kacey Davenport, who is a preschool division head at the time, also presented at Reggio. We represented North America. And during that presentation, it was about the continuity of education, but it was “Reggio from 0 to 99.”
So that's the way that they look at it. So we're all lifelong learners. And I think that when you take that approach, you know, you're constantly evolving in, in your practice. And as Jen said, looking at what's out there, and how we can best prepare our young people and our students from zero through 12th grade, for the world that they're going to live in.
Jennifer Kesselring: I think one of the things that's really important about the approach coming out of Reggio Emilia is that it is a philosophy of education. So it's not a box curriculum, it's not something that you can take from the schools of Reggio Emilia and drop into a school here. What it does is require there's a there are some basic beliefs and values, that are inherent.
And then those values will look and sound different in the different context with which you move that approach. So every time we read a book, even if we're rereading it for the 10th or 12th time, based on where we are with our understanding and the work that we're doing here, at our school and the identity that we hold, it takes on a little bit different of a twist.
So it wouldn't look the same everywhere. And it shouldn't look the same here as it does in Reggio Emilia. It should hold our identity and our context and the work that we do with the children that are here. And I think that's what has made it so valuable to us over time, is that it is not something that is fixed, but something that demands evolution.
Because if you look at school as a place of research, which is one of the tenets that they hold so dear, that then you are looking at a place that by design is always under growth and evolution. And I think that's unique to education. I think there's a lot of, places that don't involve, and this idea is these, these values that they hold, hold true hold childhood as a space for really being childhood.
At the same time that they value the incredible competency that children hold innately and that this school is not a place that there's a barrier between the outside world and school, but a place where the outside world and school blend. But also is a place where children, lean in. They tune in instead of tuning out, and we want that to last through 18 years.
And if we can create a space in which these kinds of beliefs and styles are what the children experience as they move through the school, then they leave here very empowered, to encounter anything they encounter after they leave the halls here. It's a huge responsibility. And the Reggio approach has been very, fundamental in helping us frame that thread of continuity that would move through the school, within our own identity and our own context.
Jerry, you mentioned presenting at Reggio Emilia. So Reggio Emilia is a place in Italy. It’s the name of a town where this philosophy originated, and you went there. Has Riverfield always been a reggio-inspired school?
Jerry Bates: So, I would say that Riverfield was Reggio inspired without knowing it in the beginning, So we had all of the elements. I can't I think it was 1995. We were founded in 1984, I think in 1995 that the schools of Reggio Emilia has an exhibit that travels the world. In 1995, the North American exhibit was in Oklahoma City.
And Mrs. Clarke and Jeanette Easterling, at that time the division head, for the preschool, went down to look at the exhibit and were interested in it. Shortly after that, Jen became a faculty member here and had experience with, a Reggio school outside of Washington, D.C., and so, at that point, you know, the learning, I would say that the leadership learning really began.
And then Jen began the implementing portion in our 3 to 5 wing as a teacher. And since that time, it has evolved to the point where we hosted the exhibit in Tulsa. And during that time we had people from Reggio Emilia come and they opened the exhibit. Amelia Gambetta and Layla Gambini helped us to open the exhibit here. We did a lot of professional development around the Reggio approach, both for ourselves and for the community. So it was housed at Northeastern State University. And so we were able to invite not only our teachers, but teachers from around the state and around the country to come and start to study and learn about the practice.
Following that, we actually did a trip to Reggio with 40 faculty members of all ages of our entire school, anybody who wanted to go was able to go. And I think that was really kind of the next launching pad of our development, and kind of enhanced the way we looked at the approach and looked at ourselves.
And so, I think it deepened our understanding of, of what the Reggio Emilia approach is, but also deepened the ways in which we applied our knowledge to a really high level. And so now we, we continually have a dialog with Reggio Emilia with educators there. We have sent people back. We've gone back.
And so that relationship continues to this day. And then not only that, we have we're in dialog with other schools around the country as well. So both as co collaborators in our learning and in our understanding, and then also in consulting as well.
That’s such a great segue into what your book, Curated Moments, is all about. You talk about activities you’ve done with children, You talk about this philosophy of learning, but the idea that it’s always evolving and changing—you were exposed to this unique way of doing education, and it reinforced your own innate leanings as educators. The book is your way of sharing that with a broader audience. Now, you probably weren’t exposed to these methodologies when you received your teacher training. Did you come to Reggio later? Or was it part of your beliefs from the start?
Jen Kesselring: Personally I was drawn to the Reggio Emilia approach because at the time that I was in Washington DC, the Model Early Learning Center was open and it was a Reggio inspired school and Amelia again, but it was in the Smithsonian and the top of the children's museum there, and, Amelia Gambetti was living there, in the museum with Jennifer Azerini, who is one of the fabulous atelieristas that has worked in the United States. Thinking about the Reggio approach as well. And I went to professional development there and as Jerry said, the North American version of the 100 languages exhibit in the version that it was, was traveling there as well. So it was down in Richmond, and every Thursday there was professional development there.
And personally, what I found is that the words that they were saying, very similar to what Jerry said about, revealed the words that they were saying, resonated with how I was thinking about education and that those weren't words that I had heard in a lot of other places. As I was learning about what it meant to be, an educator.
But it felt refreshing and hopeful and alive. And so when I came here, and Riverfield was interested in it, it was it was like the perfect man. I never dreamed that somewhere in Oklahoma, we'd be thinking along these lines as well. And from a school standpoint, I think, the it's almost that nature nurture.
So I think the, the premise was there, the, the openness, the, the belief about children and childhood and their capabilities and, and that childhood should be fun, and should learning should be fun, and it should be something that lasts a lifetime. Was all here. And what Reggio what the Reggio approach did was, ask us to think about that more deeply and with more intention and, think about how that translated and what that meant.
If we believe that, then what did that mean for the actions that were taking place throughout the school? And so an identity study of who we really are and who we really wanted to be, what we really believed about school was a part of that. And then every decision that we made, bumping up against what we had decided were those values.
And it only works if the values of your school and the values that Reggio Emilia are talking about, mesh. And so there was, there was a meshing, and it continues to mesh and it continues to deepen. It's not you've never reached an arrival point, it's this idea that you were speaking of, of constant evolution and growth.
And the more you know, the more questions you have. And so when you ask yourself the next question, your next research piece launches. So it's this idea of dynamic and alive learning for everyone. So that 28 years in, I'm still highly compelled to figure out more. It's never become mundane or boring or, even predictable.
The most predictable thing in my life is that it is unpredictable. But if you can embrace that and lean into it, that's where the best learning takes place for everyone. And so the adults in the building are alive and learning. Then it creates a space where children in the building are alive and learning, and then the whole culture is a place of learning. And Amelia has talked to us about that for years and years. And so that's the goal.
Emily Garman: I know I hear a lot of teachers who are burned out, struggling with the demands of a high-stress, low paying job. But what you’re describing is a joyful environment, where teachers work alongside students, and still are energetic and excited about teaching and learning.
Jennifer Kesselring: I think it is. I think it's compelling. I think it's rejuvenating. And I think it's happy.
It's a happy place to go when you don't, when you can't anticipate everything that's going to happen. And I think it's important to remember that children over 28 years that I've been in at Riverfield, children come with very different skill sets and and knowledge and experiences than they did when I arrived. I remember the day my toddler son programmed my phone before we got home from the store where I bought it. That hasn't always been the case. And so what that does is demand. If you have a child who is going to be here for 18 years, and a teacher that you want to to stay, then you have to create a space that remains relevant to everyone involved. And that's not to say, and I think it's important for us to say this is this is not utopia; we are a school. There are hard days. There are and the children are children. And they go through what they go through. But we are a place that embraces that and does our best to maintain a vision on what we're really here for. Our why, our why. Part of what the Reggio approach does is bring a constant reminder of our why.
I think I think the other piece to that is that we often say that thinking teachers, create thinking students, and so it's a level of engagement in your own life that changes. And so when teachers are engaged at a higher level of thinking and learning on their own, then the students are engaged in a higher level of thinking and learning on their own. And so when I walk, you know, when I walk the halls and teachers are setting up provocations or, you know, sometimes they'll be like, oh, don't look at this yet, you know, because they're not ready, they're not satisfied with what they're doing. And, and that creates really incredible work for everyone.
Jennifer Kesselring: And motivation.
Whitney Dickinson: I also think that if you are having a tough or a hard day, that we are a real community. And so it's not a place where you, you know, on the island as a teacher here, you have hundreds of people who you can call on to ask for help or strategies or with a specific child, or come look at my provocation and tell me what you think I could add. And so I think as a new teacher 100 years ago, that that was really comforting, knowing that I wasn't trying to do it all by myself.
Jennifer Kesselring: And I think that's one of the things that Reggio Emilia brings to education is that, it is community. It's it's about humanity. It's not just about a school. It's about humanity. It's about hope. It's about possibilities and keeping those possibilities alive in an ongoing manner. And that is something that is engaging to everyone.
I love what you said, Whitney about having support around you as a new teacher. You weren’t just given a notebook and said, “here, teach it like this!” you were able to bring your own ideas, and what was meaningful to you, to your classroom and your teaching. And I think the students feel that, because you’re joyful and happy.
Whitney Dickinson: And we all we talk about that a lot. That the more excited you are about the things that you're working on, the more that the children will gravitate to, you know, the project or the thing that you're trying to uncover with them because they see you happy and excited and these children are small and want to be by you. So the more that you are engaged and excited, the more they are as well.
So, shifting to the book again—I’ve looked around this school, and everything is beautiful and magical and well thought out. I know in your book you talk about the classroom being a “living laboratory.” So you’ve got students learning, but YOU are also learning, and contributing to the body of knowledge around how students learn. Tell me about your goals for the book. Why did you write it? What do you hope people will get out of it?
Jerry Bates: I think in general, one of the reasons we wrote the book was because people were asking us to, you know, I mean, we have a lot of college professors and a lot of college students that to a Riverfield to learn about the Reggio approach and what being inspired by it means.
Jennifer Kesselring: And it's important that and we say it to them as well, that we are not representing Reggio Emilia. We cannot in any way define what the Reggio Emilia approach is. You have to go to Italy to do that. What we can provide is our experience with being inspired and interpretation. Just one interpretation.
Jerry Bates: And so I think that was that was part of the goal, to show what's possible. You know, from our standpoint, what we've been able to learn about infants through twos education, being inspired in this way and what we could share that might open some minds into those possibilities. I had a conversation with adults yesterday where I was talking about, you know, infants through fives, and their brain development. And the majority of their brain is developed during that time.
So the more that we can expose them to, the more synapses that we can create, their lifelong learning is going to be much better, Or at least the possibilities for that are much better. And even if some of those are slowed down at various times, they can be reignited later in life. And I think the importance of early childhood education, the world is becoming more aware of that, now.
And so I think that we just want to be able to do our part to, to spread the word about what's happened here at Riverfield, and then also, try to inspire people to maybe take a different approach or to try something new or to engage students at a deeper level, engage young children at a deeper level,
Jennifer Kesselring: I think, to building on what Jerry was saying. You know, early childhood is not necessarily a field that demands respect. In larger community circles. And one of the things that we can accomplish through sharing work like this is showing how professional this is, Because for the kinds of stories that are in the book, the level of thinking on the part of the teacher, the level of action, creativity, that innovator's mindset that's necessary to think along this way, the commitment and dedication to the highest quality for children, no matter how close they are to the ground, sends a powerful message about the respect that should be given to early childhood professionals.
And so one of the things, one of the responsibilities I think we have is showing why it should be respected and showing the ways in which that translates through the eyes of a child. And then also an advocacy piece, you know, we're one school in the middle of Oklahoma. And so many people, we've heard so many people say every child deserves an education like this.
And we agree. We totally agree. But we can't be in every school. Reggio Emilia can't be in every school. So learning from the schools and the experiences in Reggio Emilia, it's an advocacy piece to share what is possible in a way that the highest quality of education can be available to every child or as many children as we can reach.
You know, the butterfly wings effect that you can hear around the world, or that it affects around the world. I think we can do our part. And so for every person that reads the book, for every professor that uses the book, we touch that many lives, and then whoever it resonates with goes into a classroom and in one year touches the lives of however many children and their team teacher and the other staff.
And then over years, you collect a large number of children that you've been able to affect. So if you can shift thinking in just the smallest ways, the impact can be very big. And then, we're just really proud of our teachers! And believe that their work is fantastic and should be shared. And again, it's rare that early childhood, especially 0 to 3, gets the recognition that they deserve.
But they're doing extraordinary things, and it's an extraordinary amount of work. And sharing that with the world, I think was important so that we could elevate, the work that they're doing, and send a message of how important that is.
Emily Garman: So in your book you’ve got lots of ideas for teachers and caregivers of infants and toddlers. And I look around here, and I see a lot of materials—and some of them are pretty expensive materials. And you’re saying its more about a mindset than about materials, but I’m curious if you can talk a bit about accessibility. We’ve talked about how every child deserves this kind of education, but how does this work when not everyone has access to these kinds of resources?
Jennifer Kesselring: I think what it we address it in the book. So one of the pieces that we write about in the book is about budget. And we have financial restraint. We're an independent school, And so we have financial restraints, too. What we have done is like I was speaking about earlier and Jerry spoke to as well, our values align with our actions.
So where we spend money reflects our belief. We, we do a lot of reclaimed and natural materials, because you can sort with them, you can count with them, you can seriate with them, you can do all of the things you can construct with them. You can do mixing and home living with them.
We also have agreements with businesses in town. So, there are times when we get leftover flowers from flower shops, and that's what goes in the middle of the tables in the months that our flower gardens aren't blooming. We reallocate our money now, instead of going towards whatever it went to before, that same amount of money gets reallocated to materials for the ateliers, the studio spaces, or in designing unique spaces, like you see the immersive studio under the loft or the Small Worlds on top of the loft.
That's where the the funding goes is to creating spaces within the classroom. And you can get creative. You know, we do supply. We will send home brown, grocery sacks. We recycle them after and, we send home brown grocery sacks with a list of things that people can find in their sewing drawers, in their garage and the junk drawer in the kitchen, so we'll say ‘we are developing this space,’ or ‘it looks like our tinkering area could use a little love.If you have, please do not buy anything, but if you have any of these things, in your closets or drawers, could you bring them in?’ And families are proud to be able to contribute. And the children are beyond excited when we sit down in group and they're showing everybody what they brought to contribute to the classroom, which then reinforces a shared ownership of the space.
A classroom is not a teacher’s space. A classroom belongs to the school and the community and all of us in it. And for a child to feel like a piece of them is there, that is a huge piece of owning that space and the learning that happens within it.
Jerry Bates: I would just say that the other piece to that is that, you become very creative, You know, it's a creativity of the adults. So you'll see a lot of the shelving units here have been built by teachers or parent volunteers. Family involvement is a tenet of the Reggio approach. And so, you know, our families are very involved in our educational process. And so when we need help, we ask for it. And oftentimes that will be families stepping in to help us build something or do something or create a space that's unique.
I think the other piece is that as we talked about the teachers earlier, our teachers are extraordinary at coming up with what they would like and then creating a way to do it. So you know, an immersive studio that's made out of PVC pipe is something that most people wouldn't even consider. So they just create and iterate, the way we want our students to do. And so that is, one, fun to watch and, two, helps us create spaces that are incredibly unique and useful, with very little resources from a monetary standpoint.
Whitney Dickinson: I also think in terms of translating it to the broader educational community, that when people come here, when people read our book, we are our hope is that they can just take one thing away. So if you see something that is inspiring to you, how could you implement that one little thing into your classroom? So if you see a messaging space, how could you redesign something in your classroom that fits your context and your students, but with inspiration from here? So it wouldn't necessarily look like a whole classroom looks like here. But what is one thing that you could take away and try to implement when you leave here?
Ashley Stewart: And I think another message is the importance of play for the educators as well. So once these spaces are developed and as we are thinking about spaces that they need to dive in and mess about and play with the same materials alongside children, and away from the children, just as faculty members, and having nights or evenings or just time and space, which our school’s mind and disposition provides us; we have the space and time to mess about and create these spaces and really get to know the materials on our own. And I think that's another message that the book delivers.
Jennifer Kesselring: I think, also, it’s an overall disposition. And I know some teachers roll their eyes now when they hear me say it, because they've heard me say it for 20 years. But an overall disposition that has made possible this ongoing commitment is, the response of your immediate response being “we could if” instead of “we can't, because.” I think it's very easy, and very human, to bump into something that looks different or sounds different or that you would love to have or that is beautiful. And to think, ‘oh yeah, but they can do that because…we can't do that because of this.’ And, you know, it hasn't been easy. It's not easy. But that's the underlying message. It shouldn't be easy. We're talking about children. And so the easy path isn't the one we should be choosing.
Now we don't have to make it the hardest path. But, if you can replace that knee-jerk reaction with ‘oh, we can't because’ with a mindset and disposition towards ‘we could if,’ then it means, ‘okay, we could if we started small and involve the parents and redistributed funds and, and, and. And then the mind just starts going and and the ‘we can if’ is different in every context because it's relevant to the identity and the context you are in.
Just two days ago, I was having the conversation of we could have, and it is this…way of being that makes anything possible. And I hope one of the messages of the book is that it is possible. It's easy to say ‘we can't because.’ but we could, and we did. And it was because we said we could if. It wasn't easy. But it was worth it, And it kept us all alive and compelled and committed to children and childhood and the highest quality education we could provide.
Jerry Bates: I think one of the other interesting pieces is that there are a couple things, but Loris Malagucci, the founder of the Reggio approach, used to say “nothing without joy.” And so that's a really important tenet to remember. They joke with me because I say it a lot. Let's have some fun.Nothing without joy. But the second part of that is, the greater the effort that you put into something, the more joy you actually get out of it. And I think that that's really the important part of it, that when our teachers are thinking and efforting and really putting their heart and soul into a provocation or into a space, you see the difference in everybody, in themselves.
The other piece is that education has always been a siloed thing because of the industrialization of education. I think that's changing. But we here at Riverfield are very much about collaboration and teams and working together. We have team teachers in classrooms, we have support staff throughoout the division head system and through our administration.
And so it becomes this team coming together to create these environments and to talk together about what what do we expect to happen even if that doesn't happen? You know, we're ready to go with two or 3 or 4 of the possibilities of what we think may happen. And then, you know, what can happen next. And that bouncing ideas off of each other also makes the learning, and, and educating more fun.
Jennifer Kesselring: I also want to bring it back to the child. Because we're talking a lot about the teacher, but all of this goes back to the child. And I think that when you are using the children as your source of inspiration, as your source for ideas--so it isn't that we in a vacuum decide, oh, this is what we should do. It's based on observation of the children, their interests, their curiosities. And if you are really listening and hearing what the children are telling you, then your actions are met with the children's response. And the children's response is unbelievably compelling to the work. And helps you be innovative in that and helps you see the what if, we could if.
Emily Garman: I think this idea of “we could if” and how you teach with that in mind, it reallyl integrates with a way of life as well. It’s not just a child has a worksheet and goes home to do it and that’s separate from their real life. You’re talking about adopting a curiosity and a love of learning infused in every part of life—every person they meet, every bug they encounter. And I would think this leads to an openness to the world, to a tolerance of people and ways of life that are different than their own.
Jerry Bates: And we've seen that with our graduates. So our graduates can carry on a conversation with anyone, they maintain their curiosity. And now I think that you're starting to see curiosity be more a part of the discussion throughout education, where school has “killed the curiosity” in traditional schooling.
Our goal is to maintain curiosity for as long as possible. So as our alums go out into the workforce, they're asking questions. They're very curious about what they're doing and how to how to navigate their life in probably a different way than most people. And a lot of that stems from how they started.
Jennifer Kesselring: And this consistent message that you are capable, we know you're capable. We're listening to you, we're watching you. We're going to take pictures of what you're doing. We're going to talk about that. We're going to visit that with your friends. You're going to explain it. Your friends are going to ask you questions. You're going to answer those. We're going to have one theory bump up against another theory, and negotiate that together.
It is possible if you have an idea, for you to make that idea come to life. And that message over 18 years is a powerful message to move into the world with.
Jerry Bates: It can be challenging as a parent, because you can't say no, they'll come back to you and they'll be like, ‘well, if we can't do that now, can we do it on this day or this day?’
Jennifer Kesselring: We could, if!
Emily Garman: I know, reading your book as a parent, I was reminded of a lot of things that I did with my child when she was younger. It seems like there might be a lot of value in your book for parents.
Jerry Bates: So I think I think we do see parents doing, you know, similar things on the weekends; they will they will set up environments for their children in their home. They learn a lot from our educators. I think that it sometimes takes parents a little while to wrap their heads around exactly what's happening here. You know, I said that I started as a parent. It took me a little while to really understand, and as my involvement evolved in the school, you know, my understanding deepened.
And then I think that my innate curiosity, kind of kept me going, and I have a pretty high level at the moment. So, I think that for parents, that's part of it. When I think about an infant parent, you know, we have those five years, right, to help educate them on why this is important.
How it's helping their child see the world in in different ways. And I think the book points to that. It's not just for educators, it is for parents. It's for people to understand that there's a lot of learning that's happening that you may not see right now. But you will see it.
And then our students tend to go home and say things that blow their parents’ minds. Because you'll talk about the life cycle of a butterfly. You'll talk about a cicada in ways that are so deep that a parent never even considered. And so that type of learning, they know that they're getting a deep understanding of life and science and various elements.
Jennifer Kesselring: I also think there are the parents for whom it is a comfortable resource. So I had a dad stop by, two days ago, I guess, and on his way out he said, “I ordered a copy of your book.” And I was like, “Oh, thank you. That's fantastic.” And he was like, “I'm looking at it. And I tried something. It didn't go exactly as you wrote about it in the book.” And I said, “Well, you know, first of all, it's your own child. And that's different,” And then we had a conversation around the fact that it doesn't always go, and that it isn't a prescriptive piece. It isn't that you can take a page out of the book and directly translate, but that you can think through ideas, and then try and then whatever the child does within that. When we set out the initial provocations, we have no idea exactly how the children are going to respond. And then we kind of shift. And he was like, “Yeah, I'm going to have to work on that.”
But it's that piece, the dancing alongside the child. It wasn't necessarily about the specific provocation that he was setting up. It was the fact that he learned that you dance alongside the child, that you're going to have an expectation maybe, but that child may bump back against your expectation with their expectation. And so then what do you do? And that's a beautiful conversation to begin in a family.
Emily Garman: You are using the term “provocation,” and I just wondered if you could explain what you mean by that, in setting up a provocation for a child?
Ashley Stewart: It is a question that the teachers are asking the children. So we ask those questions through materials and through how things are set out. So they might set up a provocation of a peacock projected onto a table with watercolors to see how the children are going to represent the peacock that they see dancing outside of their window as well. It’s our big question.
And then that lends itself for the teachers to sit alongside the children and talk through it, and ask the questions and get their feedback. And even if the children at the youngest age who cannot speak, it's watching how they're interacting with a material or what their strategies are, and even watching their eyes, gazing across the table, or their fingers and toes, thinking alongside, so it's really important also for the teachers to be listening in those ways throughout the provocations that we set up.
Jennifer Kesselring: It's an invitation for learning. It's like a learning occasion. So very different than a worksheet or humdrum. It is an invitation into what is possible with something. And then everybody remains open to what's going to happen, knowing that it is important for us to say, knowing that we in the back of our head know exactly the skill that the children need to have.
It's not that we're ignoring that. It's that we are experts in figuring out how to weave those through the natural curiosities and interests of the children. So how do we pique curiosity to engage them in something that then they begin to uncover, things and they begin to learn, and then we observe and listen very carefully to the ways in which they're doing that, so that we can be informed for the next question that seems appropriate to ask.
And sometimes we ask questions verbally, but a lot of times we ask questions through curating materials in a way that asks the question itself.
Emily Garman: And that allows for so many different ways to answer that question. With a worksheet, there’s just one right answer, and that’s it.
Jennifer Kesselring: Correct.
Jerry Bates: I think our faculty and staff have gotten really good at articulating what does this mean.And that's part of our education of parents as well. So last year our preschool faculty and staff studied literacy at an incredibly deep level for infants through fives. And so when they see what the student is doing, it helps them explain to the parents, this is a literacy skill. This is a math skill. This is science, and that that really helps the parents understand what we're doing here as well.
Jennifer Kesselring: It requires teachers to be experts, because we don't have a literacy area. We don't have literacy time. But literacy is embedded in every space and with intention. And then the articles of literacy becomes really important in the ongoing conversations with families so that they understand that it doesn't look the way it looked when you were in school. And it shouldn't. Schools should have evolved.
But we promise, right, that those skills, those practicing that learning is not just, present, but it's being inculcated in a way that's meaningful and in context so that it stays, and there's a reason to know it. And it's joyful. The last thing we want to do is kill the love of learning before they're five.
So it should just be alive and fun and full of whimsy and childhood and metaphor, and applied in ways that are meaningful. You learn the letters of a name because you need to write your best friend a message because you're having a secret meeting after school. Or you miss your mom and you need her to know. And so you write that message, and you learn letters and remember them far better in that context than you ever would with the A that you color. you know, in our experience, there's nothing wrong; no one is hurt in the production of an A. But we have found that this is much more meaningful and it lasts longer.
Emily Garman: All of these things you’re talking about go back to the expertise of the teacher, too. Positioning, recognizing the teacher as an expert. And that’s important too, in an age where parents seem to be pushing back and questioning their children’s teachers more and more. So the more a parent can understand about what you’re doing, that establishes the teacher as an expert and a master in their field.
Jerry Bates: And this is part of the messaging with society, with teachers in general. So you used to have an inherent respect for teachers that existed. That respect never translated into a monetary piece for education.
So until possibly becoming a college professor who did research, which is the research that paid for that professor to teach. And so I think that's the shift that we're also seeing that we represent ourselves as professionals. You know, and that makes a difference in how we're viewed by parents and by the community.
And, I think that's also an important message for the world. That that teachers not only should be respected, but they should be compensated in a way that they deserve. And that conversation is becoming more and more prevalent across the country as there are shortages. And I think that will continue.
Jennifer Kesselring: But I also would argue that if every teacher had the luxury of being engaged at the level that we have been able to be fortunate to be engaged in, that the burnout and the turnover might not be as high.
From my point of view, some of the systems that teachers are working in don't allow for the thinking teacher. And if you don't allow for the thinking teacher, you're getting in the way of thinking children, in my opinion, you're getting in the way versus heightening the learning possibility.
And we simply we couldn't do that. They're here for 18 years, if we got in their way, it would be inhumane. And so a lot of what we think about a lot is how do we create situations, occasions for learning where the highest levels of learning can take place, and how do we ensure that the role of the teacher is extraordinarily strong without getting in the way of the learning?
And it's a big question. It's complicated. And it looks different each day, but it does require, a teacher who is an expert in their field that is always honing their craft, that never feels done, never feels like they know the answer and so they're stopping. But a teacher who remains open and 99, and maybe 110. Remains open and leaning into what's possible and how we create all the possibilities for children.
And I think that the approach that they designed then has that inherent in its backdrop. And one of the things that it demands or invites is the voice of children. And if a child grows up knowing that their voice is important, that their ideas are important, and that they could and should be heard, then they grow into adults who know that their voice is important, their actions are important, and their voice should be heard. And I think that that is a mark that our educational system in general in America could learn from, could think about a little bit. It's not about silent classrooms with still bodies. It's about learning how to think and how to act, take action. How to make your voice heard in appropriate ways at appropriate times, in ways that it can be heard.
I'm not saying a revolt. Respect the other people, their voices. And respect everyone else's voice. So then you have a dialog, and through dialog you can create democracy, a world worth living in.
I think it’s important, and we touch on it in the book, that this book could be uncomfortable for some people. This is a different way of thinking about education. And all we ask is the what if, and then perhaps what you hold certain could bump into a new idea that could create a new question for you. And it may not be a question that we've covered in the book, but if you have a question, act on that, and then the next, and then the next, and then that way the evolution of the practice will continue.
Jerry Bates: I would also just kind of reiterate the importance of, you know, infants to twos, right, of the educational experience that they go through, they probably learn more in that portion of your life than you ever do. And I think that that's something that we take for granted. And, I hope that the book inspires people and tells them about about the capability of children that age. So right off the bat is that is John Dewey’s quote, “education is not life, education is life itself.” Their day as an infant, a toddler or a two year old is just as important as my day. And if they can engage in that day in a fun, amusing, entertaining, curious way Then they've had a fantastic day. Just like I want to engage in a day in a fun, amusing, encouraging, engaging way. So I think that that's what kind of I hope everybody gets that, that they're highly capable people, Not just children, they're people. And their day is as important as our day.
Emily Garman: Jerry, Jen, Ashley and Whitney, thank you so much for your generosity today—with your time talking to us about Curated Moments, and showing us around your beautiful school. It’s been a real pleasure and I think I could sit here and talk to you all day! Congratulations on the release of the book and getting this message out there.
Curated Moments, Reggio inspired classrooms for infants, toddlers and twos, available now from Gryphon House Books.
