What if the key to changing children’s behavior isn’t control at all? In this episode of Early Childhood Chapters, host Emily Garman sits down with Dr. Deborah Bergeron and Rhonda Conn-Parent, coauthors of Trust First, to explore a powerful shift in how educators approach behavior.
Instead of focusing on managing or correcting children, this conversation reframes behavior as communication—and an opportunity for learning. Deborah and Rhonda share how leading with trust can transform classroom culture, reduce stress for educators, and create environments where children truly thrive.
From redefining “challenging behaviors” to introducing the KIDS framework (Kindness, Independence, Delight, Success), this episode offers practical, actionable strategies educators can start using right away.
In This Episode, You’ll Learn:
Key Takeaway:
When educators shift from control to connection, behavior becomes information—and every moment becomes an opportunity to teach, learn, and build trust.
Learn More:
Trust First: Turn Behaviors that Challenge Us into Opportunities to Learn by Dr. Deborah Bergeron and Rhonda Conn-Parent is available now from Gryphon House.
Emily Garman: What if the key to changing children's behavior isn't control at all? In today's episode, we're talking about what happens when educators lead with trust instead of management, and how that shift can transform relationships, reduce stress, and create environments where every child can thrive. Welcome back to Early Childhood Chapters, a podcast from Gryphon House books. I am your host, Emily Garman.
Today I'm joined by Dr. Deborah Bergeron, “Dr. B.,” and Rhonda Conn-Parent, “Miss Rhonda,” coauthors of Trust First: Turn Behaviors that Challenge Us Into Opportunities To Learn. Together, they bring deep expertise in early childhood leadership and classroom practice. In our conversation, we're exploring what it really means to put trust at the center of classroom culture and how that shift can change everything from daily interactions to long term outcomes for children and educators alike.
Dr. B, Miss Rhonda, welcome to the podcast. I'm so excited to have you here today.
So let's start with the big idea. Dr. B, the book challenges the traditional idea of classroom management, which is a huge topic in early childhood. So tell me what it means to put trust first in an early childhood classroom culture.
Dr. Deborah Bergeron: Well. I don't think it's a new idea to focus on relationships with children over rules. I think that's something that sort of emerged early on in my career through other programs.
And the idea that if you invest in those relationships early, you're actually laying a foundation upon which you can build all of the frameworks that you need to run your classroom.
I think that isn't brand new, but I think what is different about what Rhonda and I do and talk about is really even peeling it back further and starting with trust, because when you start with trust, building what you're really doing is creating a thread between you and the children in your classroom that opens up the opportunity for children to lean into things that might not be comfortable, but because they trust you, they believe they can do it.
And I don't think that's too far fetched an idea. If everybody listening just thinks about the people in their lives that they trust and what they're willing to do for those folks.
Emily Garman: And I think trust carries with it an implication of respect to and that is, strangely, to me, seems kind of an odd idea. In early childhood classrooms, people don't think about, we need to trust children and they need to trust us. But respecting the children as well, we respect young people.
Dr. Deborah Bergeron: Absolutely. Really, what's interesting is that if you dig deep into the work that Rhonda and I do, respect comes up as a key component. And for young children, the word respect might even be new. That might not be a word that they even recognize. You might need to talk about it. But one of the things that we tell teachers is that when you're talking about respect, even just putting the word more in front of it can help make it easier and easier conversation to have.
For example, it's it's not uncommon for an adult to tell a child you need to be respectful or that's not respectful. And what that does is strip respect completely out of the situation 100%. Very rarely is there an interaction that's 100% lacking respect. There's usually some level. So when you just this is just a simple little thing about respect that we to talk about, which is just using the word more.
We'll give the child the belief that there is respect in there. I just need to unleash more of it. So respect is a huge part of what we talk about. It's just a little deeper underneath the surface. Rhonda might have more to say about that.
Emily Garman: Yeah. Rhonda, I'm curious. I want to bring you in too, obviously, but kind of the the origin story of you're working together and writing this book. So you both have in the book, you describe experiences that shape your thinking about trust in education and could can you share some moment or an experience that that made you realize that trust really has to be the starting point for working with children?
Rhonda Conn-Parent: I think it comes back to peeling it back even more, and that is that the element is trust is part of our DNA. It's kind of breathing or needing food that in order to grow the brain, trust has to be part of an initial part of that foundation and peeling it back even a little more that it's got to start within the commander of the ship. And that's the teacher. So the teacher really, we come back over and over and over to this idea of trust and respect, etc., really has to start very strong from the teacher's standpoint, that it's not something you place on to children, that you've got to really absorb these concepts first for yourself, and then you just model it and it's healthy soul food.
So I did want to touch on that. As Dr. B. was talking about, the placement of trust. And if we interpret it as part of our DNA, that was the moving part for me, is relating it to brain development and not this kind of concept or bumper sticker or new poster to put in your room. It really is our DNA, something that is essential, we can see it outside the classroom. It's not just in the classroom that that is a turning point for our desired outcome. You know, to be able to get towards that trajectory or move away from it is the amount of and the quality of trust that you're creating. So that was the turning point for me, was learning just the placement of where trust plays in how you're going to, how you grow and how you grow brains and double happiness around you.
As a teacher, that was super exciting for me, and I taught in lots of different types of environments, but in my tougher ones. It was a groundbreaking, immediate change with the relationship with myself and my job. And then that spilled off to my children, my students. Like I could see where neurologically you build trust with that child.
And there's a formula to it that does come in the book, but there is this, this turning point, and you can see it. It's offering a kid healthy soul food as opposed to a Snickers bar. They want that healthy soul food because they know it's their DNA. The snicker bar might taste good, but they want that healthy soul food and trust that knowing how it grows and how it gets destroyed, that's what we hope to communicate in this book, is that understanding.
Emily Garman: That's great. I want to talk about the subtitle a little bit, because “Challenging Behaviors” is a huge catch phrase too, that we're talking about in early childhood. And you're talking about, again, you were just talking about reframing it as a challenge behavior. Or is the child having trouble> How we view that as the adult is so critical. And maybe instead of viewing these as challenging behaviors, or the child is trying to give us a hard time, it's an opportunity to learn. So, Rhonda, what are some ways that educators can just make some shifts in their mindset so that the behavior we're seeing from children becomes information rather than something we need to control or change?
Rhonda Conn-Parent: Well, I'll start by surfing on that subtitle a little more that you touched on, which I love that you did that. And that's turning behaviors that challenge us into opportunities to learn. And it doesn't mean just for the child. It bounces back to the, again, the commander of the ship and how you're steering it and what tools you're using.
In the book, we do offer those skill sets. And I was surfing on that subtitle a bit, but is that that's the question you asked me was, what do we provide to help teachers shift their mindset?
Emily Garman: Yes. Just some tips. And I mean, you can refer back to the book because there's a lot more in there that you can really cover then you can cover in the podcast. But sure, you know, just some just even being aware of it, I think is critical to say I need to look at this.
Rhonda Conn-Parent: Opportunities to learn is also for the the teacher. It's not just, how do I get this kid to behave, it's what am I doing to nurture the trust and keep it alive. And when it's when it's struggling, what can I do to influence it back to that desired outcome, that desired behavior, or whatever your goal is as a teacher and in creating your learning atmosphere.
So again, it comes back to peeling it back a little further and focusing on your skill set and your contribution. You are going to influence the learning atmosphere. And I think that's honestly step one. You are the main influencer. You're the engineer of the environment. Nobody else is. So how well are you doing that? And you can create all sorts of analogies… it's your theater, how well are you creating this theater?
You can think about it an engineering space for learning. How well are you engineering those systems so that DNA is being met, to create that trust and to maintain it so that kids are balanced. And I'm throwing in that KIDS, because that's the second part of the DNA is, is kindness, independence, delight and success. Interwoven. There's a really great memory I have that I want to share related to this. Okay, Rhonda and I have been doing this for 30 plus years together and we could do the big reveal. We're actually sisters.
Dr. Deborah Bergeron: We just happen to both be teachers and jumped into all.
Emily Garman: You heard it here first!
Dr. Deborah Bergeron: That's right. I mean, I don't know if you're supposed to announce that we don't have the same last name.
Rhonda Conn-Parent: Blow up the internet Debbie!
Dr. Deborah Bergeron: We look nothing alike. And it doesn't really matter. Except that we grew up together and we both became teachers, and we both embraced this early on, and we would share all these experiences. And I had this really great memory. It's probably 30 years old, and honestly, I can't even remember if it was me or Rhonda who was having the issue with the child. But here was a scenario.
There was a little boy who would not come to the carpet. He was so enthralled with a glue bottle that had dried glue on top of it, and he was trying to peel it off in one peel. Now, those of us who are old enough will know that we used to put this on our hands and try to peel it off, and the goal was to try to peel it off without it breaking, this was a big deal.
Emily Garman: It's satisfying.
Dr. Deborah Bergeron: It is satisfying. So. Oh, you're so on point. And this is part of the trust right. So Rhonda was talking about KIDS. And the last part of KIDS is success. And we were talking about this refusal to come to the carpet. And we said, but he's actually getting his success met, because as he peels that glue bottle and feels the feeling of that layer of glue coming, there is a huge hit of success that he's having.
His definition of success at that moment is not walking to the carpet. He gets zero from that. That is not filling that bucket. Now, I'm not implying that we just let kids do whatever they want to do all day, and there's no order to your classroom. However, if you just shift your mindset from seeing that opportunity for that child to be successful as opposed to being defiant, you've completely flipped what we would call a challenging behavior.
And I do want to point out we don't call it a challenging behavior. We call it a behavior that challenges us because at the end of the day, his refusal to go to the carpet is challenging us. It is not challenging him at all. He has zero connection to that, especially if he's an early childhood kiddo, 4 or 5 years old, completely unaware of the fact that you have a schedule to adhere to.
But more than that, he is waiting for that moment when that peel comes all the way up and that conversation that we had that's so old stuck with me. And every time I had an issue with a kid and I have been in elementary, middle and high school and I have been a teacher and a an administrator, so I've done the leadership piece of it, too.
I always thought to myself, where are they getting the hit? They're getting a hit from this, from something. Is it is it giving them success? The other three could be a possibility. Are they looking for kindness and love? Are they looking for some independence and freedom? Are they looking for for some pure delight and joy? Or is it giving them success?
And once you can start to look for those things, it's not that it immediately fixes it. And he jumps up and comes to the carpet and everyone's happy. But man, does it make it easier to deal with because now it's no longer personal. It's no longer, he won't listen to me. He doesn't follow rules. He's defiant. It's just this situation that you're going to figure out and you are going to set boundaries and you are going to have circle time, and you are going to expect kiddos to come to the carpet.
But believe me, once you shift the way you see that and the way your body responds and your energy responds, the chances of that child continuing to fight behavior goes down dramatically because all of a sudden he's not threatened by you anymore. And you can celebrate the glue and then go do circle time that's an option.
Especially if the response after is ultimately for the child to come to the carpet or whatever it is, but being patient and slowing down; you and those children are important. So being able to slow down and shift the mindset, even if it's hey Joey in to do one more peel and then you can come to the carpet, whatever it is, it's just not, you're defiant, oh my God, what's this kid going to do next year if I let him keep doing this?
I mean, the wheels turn. And so if those wheels that are turning are more trust embedded and kids oriented and informed, the energy changes completely. The culture of the class is very different and we dare to say healthy!
Emily Garman: So Rhonda, talk me through. Let's go into this KIDS framework because you've alluded to it a few times. And I know that's a big part of the book. So KIDS, talk about what that stands for and how it can help educators design a classroom culture where children really thrive.
Rhonda Conn-Parent Awesome. Well, the first thing I'll say is the acronym doesn't matter. It's more of the concept around this idea that there are four things related to our DNA that drives our behavior from the time we're born till we're done. And it's so it's not just applied to children, and it's four things that when they're balanced, you feel really right, you've got a smooth ride in what you're doing.
And so we're going to use the acronym KIDS to make it easy to refer to. But we do say in the book and we do stress this, that it's, it's really, if you can get your head wrapped around the fact that there are four things that are driving everybody's behavior when you get out the door and when you wake up in the morning, that's the first step to understanding kids.
So in our acronym, it is kindness, independence, delight and success. And when those four things are balanced, you've got a smooth ride within yourself and with children. The second thing I would communicate in kind of unfolding this complex idea at first it's really complex at first and then it's so not it's the easiest thing to grasp.
But in the beginning it's kind of weird, is that we suggest and really want teachers to embrace this for themselves before thinking this is what they have to teach to children. Teach it to yourself first. This idea that thinking about something you love doing, you just love doing it. You most likely are experiencing a level of kindness, independence, delight, and success all at once. You most likely are.
There might be one that might be a little weaker than the other, but it's not enough to to drive you away from it. And if teachers can understand or leaders of whatever they are creating of their own life as well can understand that concept as our DNA. Like, think about it vitamins.
They're necessary. Like they are not going away. And that kiddo Debbie was talking about, Dr. B. was talking about, the kid peeling the glue. I mean, there's an enormous amount of achievement going on there for that kid. That's huge. As far as the kindness, respect, the teacher has to gauge how they want to work with that.
How do you want to keep that moving? That's not really for me to comment on. That would be up to the independent teacher to to understand how they're going to engineer nurturing that. But just knowing that every child and parent and community member that walks in your classroom, they are all striving towards balancing those, whether they know it or not.
It's a need; drinking water, eating food, breathing. And it can come in positive ways and it can be, you can try to achieve it also in ways that don't work for the environment that you're in, tapping a pencil, throwing a chair. There are so many ways that it can be met, bu the cool thing about once you understand that this is not going to go away.
This is this is a human need. It's essential. Then the teacher can very easily dissect for things that need to be met. And when one's missing, it is so much easier to troubleshoot with that child, and it doesn't have anything to do with you. Personally, I have lots of kids who come into to my classroom in the beginning, especially in the beginning of the year.
If they come mid-year, whatever, where I can tell they don't know much about art and they might come in feeling threatened or I'm not going to be able to perform this kid over here. And my job is to create that that environment where that child can get doses of achievement. That's huge. So that respect can come back.
And if I do it using independence, that's even more. And if I make it fun, that kid's eating off that plate of soul food nothing else. And it really, I mean, if it if it wasn't, like, really happening, I just wouldn't be here talking about it. But it does it, it it floors me. I will text Debbie and go, oh my gosh, look, look what they're making.
They're making art about the KIDS acronym or what? Because they know that this isn't patronizing. This isn't a trick. It's not a shtick. It's not the latest thing. Drinking water isn't the latest thing that we need. We've always needed it. It's just it's extremely aligned and authentic to the human condition to grow brains and double happiness. So they're going to eat off that plate, because it’s good. Yeah.
Emily Garman: You used that phrase double happiness a couple of times. Can you share with us what you mean by that?
Rhonda Conn-Parent: Happy and joyful in my classroom. And I know that people will associate the arts a lot with, Oh, they love to do that, isn't that. They just love to draw. Isn't that just so charming? And I see it so much deeper than that. It's they are getting their DNA met. They're going to align it with intense levels, deep, deep levels of synthesis and evaluation.
All the things that are teacher training platforms are training us on. They just happen to be real happy doing that. And when they struggle, it is okay. Because as a trust first teacher, you will teach that struggle is a beautiful part of growing the brain and that happiness will come. That joy and delight will come. It's there, it's on the horizon.
But the struggle is absolutely part of the formula and it's embraced. It's a big part of the joy of learning and growing and learning how to move through that.
And I think a big part of that double happiness is for the teacher. I think we dream of teaching when we're little and we imagine what it's going to be like. And then then you maybe have a moment where you teach someone something and you watch it happen and you might be young or you might be older, and it is the greatest thing for a teacher. For a born teacher, it's the greatest feeling, you just elevate off the ground when you see someone learn something that you aim to teach them, right, and that's what you want to do. And then you go into the classroom and you feel you never have a chance to do it because it is such a heavy lift.
And that is sad. So what we are aiming to do is to bring that double happiness back to the teacher. For them to look forward to going into that classroom, because that's where the joy lives. And I feel over time and I and I, I'm not going to like, sit here and try to dissect why it doesn't matter.
But there are enough unhappy teachers out there where I think we can come to the conclusion that something has to change. And the real joy that Rhonda and I find in working with children in this capacity, it's authentic. And I will tell you another fun story. This is kind of the most hilarious moment of my career.
I was a principal and I brought this in every building I taught in it. Whether it was formal or less formal, I never push anything on people. So it's more of a, come check this out, and I'd have a couple teachers get excited and do it, and then other teachers would go, what are they doing? And then more would do it.
And my whole building would become trust first based.
But you always have a couple people who don't want to get on board. And I had a teacher in one of my buildings who was… she didn’t seem like she wanted to be happy at work. I don't know what the issue was, but she was definitely not loving this. And she came into my office and said, do you have a minute? And I said, sure. And she shut the door. She said, I don't know what you think you're doing with all this positive thinking stuff, but it's not working. And I thought, well, that's just about the best compliment I have ever gotten. Because if you're telling me that everyone being happier isn't working, I don't even understand that sentence that doesn't even compute in my brain.
And, you know, we had a conversation. I certainly took in her feedback, and she left midyear. So, you know, it wasn't an environment where she was comfortable feeling that joyful being a teacher. Something about teaching needed to feel difficult or it wasn't right. But the other teachers in my building loved it and embraced it, and they all went off to different schools.
I'm still in touch with them, and all of them are still big proponents. And so I know that for the bulk of people out there, they do want to love what they do. And if you love that feeling of watching kids learn and seeing that happen because of something that you imparted, this is for you.
Because guess what? You get to teach all day long. There's never not a teaching moment. It's all about teaching and learning and that's it.
Dr. Deborah Bergeron: Can I comment on what you just said? I'm so happy that you mentioned bringing it back to the teacher. Can I comment on that? Because I'd love to get into 2026 teaching, because it is not always easy. Oh, this is just I've got all the answers. I'm so trust first and this…no. 2026 teaching is challenging.
Rhonda Conn-Parent: It is. And the thing about trust first though is it gives you this this format to walk on, this platform to walk on, to be able to intake very challenging behaviors that challenge us and have a healthy platform from which to solve the problem. That might take time. Just that kid, peeling glue off his fingers. Except it's for the teacher.
Deborah Bergeron: I have had classrooms classes that, you know, I teach 12 classes a day, and I'll have a class where the chemistry just isn't working. And I'm like, guys, I need a day to think about this. I got to go to solution. I got to figure out where the KIDS is, it’s so funny, the acronym, how it's aligned, but where the KIDS isn't balanced and it's easy. It's four things kindness, independence, delight, and success. I got to figure out which we call them, tires. Like four tires on a car balanced, even smooth ride. Where is it getting bumpy? So I take the 24 hours and I and I can troubleshoot it, just you would for a kid struggling with math or reading or whatever.
What strategy can I use? But behavior doesn't get that type of attention. It doesn't get that type of approach, but interest first it does. And it makes it so easy because you got four things to troubleshoot. And so when the teacher has that solution driven light at the end of the tunnel, it isn't so oppressive that this class can't get along.
Rhonda Conn-Parent: And that just happened two weeks ago with a third grade class. For me, the chemistry just went off after January. It was so hard to get through a lesson and the kids were over each other and it was so weird. And so I just pinpointed like, what part of their art as a community is flat. And we went right at it. It was absolutely kindness. It was so easy. So we do a daily lesson and exercise on kindness on hearing kind things. I did a whole thing about it. But the point isn’t, oh, isn't my lesson just so fabulous? It's you just identify the deficiency, and you go in there and you solve it the best you can. Sometimes it doesn't work, but it is weird how many times when it is KIDS driven and trust driven.
A lot of times it will get the class moving forward and then when there's a hiccup again, then they're like, hey Miss Rhonda, let's make sure to drop in the good. We did this. I made up this thing called drop in the good, where they all had to drop in good about each other because it just wasn't happening.
And they were the ones who said, Miss Rhonda, we forgot to drop in the good when we opened class. I'm like, oh, let's do it. When we leave, they want it and there's no stickers, there's no candy, there's no tickets to go buy things at a store in the school. It's DNA. When kids DNA is filled, you can just sit back and watch really good things happen, even when it's challenging. And actually, I dare to say, especially when it's challenging. It's the thing that unfold.
Dr. Deborah Bergeron: I think one thing to really highlight in the story that Rhonda just shared is the connection to trust. The connection to trust beyond just the belief that if the four tires are filled, were smooth riding, which is absolutely true. There's a bigger piece of trust building happening there, because Rhonda came in as a teacher and said, these are things I care about.
This is what I'm going to pay attention to. So yes, you want to fill your own kids first as a teacher, but you are going to teach this to your students, and they're going to know that these four things have to be balanced so they know that, right? She notices post winter holiday, the class doesn't even look like the class before they left for a winter break.
And what the heck's going on? And she says, I mean what I say and I say what I mean. So we're going to put Art over here for a minute, and we're going to go back to the missing, to the flat tire. And I'm observing it's kindness. We're going to fill that tire up so that we can do the art, which is very different than the way 99% of our classrooms are managed most of the time, even with a really good classroom management program that has lots of very positive vibes.
I mean, there are a lot of really good things out there. We even cite some of them in the book. I don't want to make it sound like this is the only thing and whatever. It's not.
But very rarely are we treating this importantly enough to put the content aside and say, wait, the content isn't going to work anyway. If you guys are flipping each other off every five minutes or if you're, you know, throwing trash over it, so and so because, you know, you whatever the things that happen in classrooms that drive you bananas. But if you stop everything and you spend the time to drop in the good or whatever it is you can come up with, you have so much creativity out there in our classrooms, it's amazing.
Come up with the thing that's missing and then figure out how to fill it, and you take the time to do it. So not only has she filled the tire, that's great, but she's done something much more important. She has told her students, her children, that she trusts them and they can trust her to mean what she says and say what she means.
She said it was important and she meant it. So many times we put rules on the wall or we create a contract together and it's up on the wall. But I got to get through this lesson or I'm not going to be ready for the test. And so we just got to plow through. You're just going to have to listen.
You just have to do what I need you to do, because otherwise I can't get to the thing. And if we could figure out how to trust ourselves that if we prioritize this, we promise you the content will be there, we promise you. And it will be in exponential speed. Because now you've got students who are listening and seeing and trusting you, and okay with not understanding because they know you mean what you say and you say what you mean and you've got their backs. And that's why it works.
Rhonda Conn-Parent: On a neurological level. It's true. I mean, there's trainings out there: trauma informed care, etc., that have absolutely proven that the brain isn't even ready to take in information. I believe it's the frontal cortex, don't quote me on that. But I believe it's the frontal cortex that when that's blocked, you're not going to get to content. It's not going to happen.
When you are able to diffuse that and again come back to, you know, if it, you can show it. If you don't, you can take the time to learn it. That comes directly from the book. I do I mean, what I say and I can dare to stop my content. And I don't care if it's art or reading.
It doesn't matter what the content is. They're not going to get it. If they're coming to your class anticipating that Austin is going to flip off so-and-so or say something nasty, or what is he going to do? That's what they're coming into your class about way more than anything else. And so if we can prioritize that diffusion and balance out those tires, and you've given them the formula from day one, which, you know, that's the first two weeks, then that KIDS acronym, it becomes very balanced.
And kids, all the children will also be able to troubleshoot really well. I mean, I've had a kid in my class say, you know, because cleanup got out of control and we all came together as a group. And I'm like, guys, what's going on? I don't know what. Let me, give me give me five minutes to think. And so and so raises his hand, said Miss Rhonda. We have too many centers open. It's too much stuff, too much freedom. You got to take some of the freedom away, pick some centers that don't have as much stuff to put away. Let us get strong on that and then come back to it. That was second grade. I am not kidding. And they picked this up because it's healthy, it's real, and it's aligned with going to solution on how to grow brains and double happiness.
It's not a shtick. It's not some cute poster. There's no prizes. There's no distractions. It's learning math. It's right in front of you, you know, and it's a focal point.
Emily Garman: So much of what you have talked about with instructing children, but also in relating to the other adults that we work with, administrators, parents; you talk a lot about seeing mistakes and, you know, seeing behavior or challenging behaviors as not a problem to be solved, but as a collaborative learning experience. And even though that's kind of one of those things that sounds great in theory, but when you're actually in the moment with a child who's exhibiting undesirable behavior, it's can be hard to kind of make that move to say, okay, what information can I get from this?
How can we approach it collaboratively? But the skills that teaches a child, you know, think about I think about if I had learned to view mistakes as learning opportunities as a child versus, you know, I'm still trying to learn that as a as a full grown adult, it's difficult. If I learned it as a child, how would that have changed the way I approached everything in my life?
So that is something teachers are working on together, but also with just giving the child that skill in the moment but also throughout their lives is pretty powerful.
Dr. Deborah Bergeron: You know, I have to say, as a leader, you talked about leadership, imagine the impact you're having on your teachers because they also live in the same space that we're going to learn from the things we don't do correctly today, it's continuous improvement. This idea that there's this finish line in teaching is ridiculous. There's no finish line.
You're constantly moving forward and adapting to the environment as it changes. So when you lead from a trust first standpoint, and there is a sub piece of every chapter that tells a building principal or a superintendent what they can do to support this. I do want to say from the outset, a teacher can pick this book up and do it inside his or her four walls, and they don't need any buy in from the school and it still will have a really good impact.
But man, is it better if everybody is on board or most people are on board. So as a building leader, when you are sending the message that mistakes are where we get excited because it's where we learn and grow. And that's true for a second grader, and it's true for a second grade teacher, and it's true for a principal.
All of a sudden, folks come to their job from a completely different viewpoint, and they work differently. They share differently. They're more open and honest because they're not afraid. And the whole culture in the building shifts from this, you know, fear and compliance driven behavior to a far more responsible and thoughtful and collaborative sort of opportunity. And, you know, I had plenty of teachers who would just come to me and say, this is so amazing. I feel so free to be able to do what I need to do. And, you know, it's magical. It really is a magical experience.
Rhonda Conn-Parent: I think stepping a little back and and being sensitive and understanding of where an administrator is coming from and where that fear is coming from, it's real. There is a lot of pressure on teachers to get tests done, to get results. Curriculum coming down, mandated from the district because they want to do these new things, or that's happening in our district.
And I think what trust first does is makes that everything everywhere, all at once manageable, because how that brain is going to develop and that's not going to take second, you know, the test scores will come or won't, whatever. I mean, you know, you'll get there.
But the steps in getting to that desired outcome are just a little different. It's not fear driven. It's not be so scared. Give them a lot of tickets. Give them a prize. If they do this or that, it's a totally different perspective or approach because of how the brain grows. This isn't pulled out of air just to make people feel good and balanced. It's because that's how the brain is going to grow and get to, you know, question A, that you have to fill in the bubble for.
And I really do understand those administrators go to really challenging you talk about behaviors that challenge. They're not just coming from the kids. They're coming from all over the place. And that it does create a culture of fear.
Not intentionally. I don't think it's intentional. I don't think anybody's going, oh, let's really scare teachers. So they do what we say, but they just don't know any other language. I don't know what it is. And maybe it really is not understanding how that brain is growing and how your administrator brains are growing and their hearts are growing and what they're taking back to their building. But I can tell you that the content gets there when you've laid out the carpet of like, super healthy culture.
Emily Garman: The more we learn about children's brain development and our DNA and our humanity, it seems the older models of teaching and instruction are less and less viable. This idea that the teacher is the all knowing one, and imparts the knowledge to the children who should sit still, just listen. Everything that we're learning about education and children's brains really breaks that down and shows us that that's just not effective for anybody.
And one of the things you talk about in the book is that behavior is a skill. Desired behavior, I guess, is a skill that that we have to teach children. They're not just immediately going to to know what to do, and I know earlier we were talking about the word respect. And you know, if you say to a child, well, that's disrespectful. I mean, they don't know what that means or what you want them to do. I mean, that's something I about your book, too, is you talk about explicitly teaching the desired behavior and that if it doesn't all look the same, that's okay. There's more than one right way to get to a solution.
I just think that's really powerful and positive, especially at this time when it is so challenging to be a teacher.
Dr. Deborah Bergeron: You know, you talked earlier about the collaboration, the collaborative essence of what you're feeling. And I would say that is spot on. So one of the things I would add to that, as teachers are listening and thinking, you really think I have time to stop and teach a behavior while I have 18 other, you know, five year olds who are waiting, like, how am I supposed to do this?
And so I want to be clear that, number one, it doesn't all happen at one time. This is a process of unfolding. And that gets easier as you lay that foundation. But I also think it is collaborative. And that's why having your building administrator, your leadership on board does matter. And I give you a great example of that. I was a principal at a school, an elementary school, and I had a first year teacher, and she was in second grade, and she had a little boy who just really was obviously hearing lots of fun language at home and bringing it right into the classroom. And it was really challenging for her because she didn't know what to do.
What do I do with that? He's so little? Does he really know what he's saying? But everyone knows what he's saying. So this is weird. And I wasn't trained for this, so she sends him to the office. I mean, that seems the right thing to do, and that was fine. She needed support as a trust first leader.
I knew the job. The job is to teach the skill. It's to teach the skill. So I stepped in to support her and made a deal that because one of the things about a situation that, I will just say that's tricky is if I just come out with, man, that's crummy language. You shouldn't say that at school.
He's thinking, why, my parents talk that way. Are you being mean to my parents? So I have to be really careful about how I call this out, because I know that's where he's hearing it, despite their refusal to admit that; it didn't matter.
So I said to him, you know, a school building is a different kind of place. We use different words here sometimes than we use outside of a school building. And I took him to the door, front door, and I said, this is the front door. When you walk in, you turn on school words. Okay, I'm going to meet you at this front door every single day when you get off the bus and just remind you that this is we're ready for school words.
This I knew he could understand. So I taught him. And then I did what I said, and I meant what I was, what I said I was going to do. And I'm telling you, for a building principal of 800 kids, it's not easy to meet one kid at the school building door every single day.
But here's what happens when you do that with children. I don't know which day. Maybe the eighth or ninth day. He looks at me. He goes, you know, Dr. B, I can do this myself. I know what the door looks like. And I was like, cool. See you later. And that was it. So no punishment, no demeaning language to him, making him feel he doesn't live in a good house because this is what he's hearing.
Supporting the teacher because she didn't have time to do that. That would have been an overarching task for a teacher who's getting ready to teach for the day. And so I think that that part of this, that's why this at a school level, is, is far more effective, because now you've got a team of people who can all be about teaching the skill, and we're all here to teach and treat behavior an opportunity to learn and grow.
And if we can do that together, it's far more manageable than expecting a single teacher with 25 eight year olds to figure out how to do tutoring around language.
Emily Garman: Is there anything at this point, I'll I'll pause and say, is there anything that we need to cover that that I haven't asked or that you want to call out in the book? One of the things that I did have written in my questions that I didn't get to quite yet, and I'm not really sure where it might fit in, but I, I think people take away acronyms, and so I was noticing that you also had the PIT stop: pause, inhale, think and that that's I mean, that's useful whether you're a teacher or student, whatever you're doing, you're going to find a reason to do that at least one time during your day. So I wonder if you could share a few little tactics from the book that people could take away after listening to this today.
Dr. Deborah Bergeron: Sure. Rhonda, do you want to talk about pit stop?
Rhonda Conn-Parent: Yeah. Again, it comes back to how the brain functions. So the more we learn about how the brain functions--and I don't have all the answers, but these small things just really align with what kind of environment I want to have in the classroom. And a pit stop is it's a fun, inviting way to communicate to children. The first step you need to take to be able to even access the concept of kindness, independence, delight, and success.
When your brain is over circuited, it can't get to that information. It can't. And so to just slow down and take a pit stop and we practice pause, inhale, think it's literally those things. And again the acronym doesn't really matter. I was even thinking I think high school kids would be like, I'm not taking a pit stop, I'll show you a pit stop! But I think, even take a beat, breathe in, exhale. Allow yourself to think. Take a beat. Telling a kid to take a beat is super, it's a matter of just pausing. Once you tell a kid they don't have to solve the problem right away, they can do that. Thank you. Because the speed at which we think we need to live is ridiculous.
We all know it. And so to slow down, you're important. Slow down. Pause. Now breathe in. And then you can think. And it's the oxygen reaching the brain. I don't know exactly which parts of the brain I'd have to go back and really share that science stuff or whatever. But you can just do it and it does it and your brain just relaxes.
And so again, coming back to teaching a behavior pit stop is within the first 20 minutes of the first day of school. In fact, it's the first thing they do when they come into my classroom the first day of school. I want to sucker punch them with what matters, and that is being able to understand your body, being able to understand what is happening to your body without me, you know, doing a poster, whatever.
I just tell them we're going to take three mindful breaths. Let's try roller coaster. And they look at me weird and I'm doing it. And sometimes I close my eyes. That's the very first engagement they have with me. So what I'm hoping to communicate to them is this is going to be a very stress free place, not all the time because it's exciting, but we're striving towards that. And I'm going to give you the skills and the tool belt for that.
I'm not just going to put it on a thing and say, hey, if I if I reward you with enough tickets, you'll get it. We're going to practice it, we're going to live it. We're going to expect it of each other. We're going to let people do it by themselves and not tell them to do it. You know, they learn how to give people space for that. And a pit stop is super game changing. If anything, that and again, practicing it for yourself at home, with your spouse, with your children, with your dog, with yourself you're getting down on yourself. Take a pit stop for yourself. Just take a minute and just breathe in. And sometimes it takes 20 breaths to like, get to that space.
We had a kiddo in our hall the other day who was must have been in the hallway for 20 minutes in a pit stop. Okay. You'll be fine. It's better that we get that child healthy than whatever else was, because then that creates the momentum of trust, and it's okay to feel these complex feelings. We don't have to analyze them all day. And I can leave them aside and go learn that lesson from that teacher that sometimes I don't get along with. But
Rhonda Conn-Parent
oh, well, I know that I'm in a trusting atmosphere. It just creates that traction. And so the pit stop is exactly that. It's pausing and hailing in order to be able to think. And it does so much more than give the kid and yourself an opportunity to breathe. It starts to create that platform of trust that you are in a safe place to grow here. You're going to make mistakes. This is the practice field. It's not the Super Bowl. So don't treat it the Super Bowl.
We're going to fall on our faces, including me, those kids, my students totally know, I’ll tell them, I need two breaths right now. Just whisper about what you watched on TV yesterday.
Well, if we're on to watch the Super Bowl, she'll know that. No, not all Super Bowls are great examples of serious talent. Anyway, I think the cool thing about the PIT stop acronym for kids in particular, is that they can understand a car race and they know that, you know, and thank you, Netflix, for formula one show, because people are watching it like crazy. So they see those fast cars go off to the side. They get their the tires changed or inflated, they get gassed up and then they can race again.
It's kind of that, I mean, that exact theory and they can understand that that's very logical and practical and they know it's true for a car. So I don't know why it couldn't be true for me, you know, that kind of thing. So the acronym itself is just a vehicle for something much deeper that you have to figure out a way to talk about it.
I don't think mindful breathing is a brand, obviously a brand new concept, but I don't think we package it in a way that's accessible to kids all the time. It can't just be the way you start class. That's fine. You want to start with a pit stop. So everyone's kind of starting on the even line. That's great. But you don’t know who came in to a middle school class having just broken up with her boyfriend and that little mindful breath at the beginning of class ain't going to do it. She's still suffering and is probably going to lash out, so giving them that space and trusting them to use it in a way that supports their own need is risky, but also really a huge part of building the foundation of trust in your classroom.
When you trust kids to take care of themselves again, they look back at you. They go, okay, I think I can believe what she says because she trusts me. And I have had teachers use this and come back and say, he wants to take a pit stop every single day for five minutes, and what am I supposed to do?
And my first response is, I would just let them. If they're legit taking a pit stop, let them do it. It's possible they need the breathing. It's possible they really just want to see if you mean what you say about pit stops. They're going to test you a little bit and you're going to show them that you do.
It's also possible that some kids just want to have control over where they are at certain times of the day, and by giving them that little bit of independence, you're building the trust. And so then when you need them to come back and take the test or do whatever, you're going to have just far fewer issues.
Emily Garman: And trusting them to say, I need this, and respecting that. If a child says I need to take.
Dr. Deborah Bergeron: We could do a whole other show on I need, we could be here.
Emily Garman: I believe it. Well, we will we'll do another one. We’ll do another one.
Dr. Deborah Bergeron: We would love it.
Emily Garman: Well, it's been a really wonderful interview. And I think what the momentum that you've got with this book and what you've been doing for 30 years is so positive. And I think that this book has the potential to get this out to so many more people and more educators. And that's really exciting. And I appreciate you being here with us today on the podcast. Thank you.
Dr. Deborah Bergeron: Thank you and and Gryphon House for getting our message out there. We are so excited. This is a labor of love and we really, really appreciate your trust in us.
Emily Garman: Well, the feeling is mutual. We are very excited to work with experts of your caliber, and it's just been a very positive experience so far. So thank you so much to Dr. Deborah Bergeron and Rhonda Conn-Parent for sharing their insights, and for the powerful work they're doing to reframe how we approach behavior and relationships in early childhood settings. If this conversation resonated with you, you can learn more in their book Trust First available May 1st from Gryphon House books. And if you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a colleague and join us next time for another episode of Early Childhood Chapters.